Boo Creepy Vagina Doctor!

Fun little story in The Washington Post this morning regarding the surging popularity of faith-based OBGYN offices. One of the largest of these offices, Tepeyac Family Center, is located, naturally, in Fairfax. The doctors at Tepeyac won't fill out prescriptions for birth-control pills, but they will teach you the ins-and-outs* of the rhythm method.

If you're unfamiliar with the rhythm method, it's basically a form of sexual Russian Roulette that involves taking vaginal temperatures and examining vaginal mucus samples. I don't possess the maturity to deal with vaginal mucus samples. Loving relationships that aren't sinning in the eyes of God are great and all, but, um, gross. Also, and this is kind of important, the rhythm method doesn't work. I was taught this method in my senior year of high school in my Marriage class. Three cheers for Catholic school!

I guess it's cool if a woman of religious persuasion wants this kind of medical attention. The article mentions that often people who oppose birth-control are teased by their former OBGYNs. That's unacceptable. But that doesn't make these religious OBGYNs any less discomforting. Some aren't exactly upfront about what kind of medical attention they provide. (Although, the Madonna statues in the Tepeyac office should be a big fucking hint.)

My biggest problem isn't with the adult women who want this kind of service. I have no problem with people getting care that best fits their personal beliefs. However, I'm concerned for the teenagers who end up in these places. If your Mom refers you to a religiously oriented OBGYN office, what do you do if you have a pregnancy or STD scare? If you have nowhere else to turn, wouldn't it be horrible to be a sexually active 16-year-old and not be given the opportunity to be on birth-control? If a condom breaks, where do you go for an STD check? At the very least these doctors should refer you to a Planned Parenthood clinic or something, but the article says that a lot of these doctors won't do that. That, to them, would be complicit sin.

By the way, Tepeyac has 15,000 (!!!) patients who don't use birth control. There's going to be a lot of daughters in the Metro area who won't get the care they need and deserve.

*I apologize for that incredibly lame double-entendre.


  1. This is just as bad as the stance that the HPV vaccine shouldn't be given to all girls because it will encourage premarital sex.

    Newflash: vaccines dont' encourage premarital sex. TV and movies do! and Lindsay Lohan! a-duh!

  2. There are political appointees at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta that put religious policy over science. This is happening right now.

  3. You know how I know Rusty is gay? He uses incredibly lame double-entendres.

  4. And most teenage males as well do not possess the maturity to analyze vaginal mucus samples. They'll just jump right into it.

    And don't tell me this is a reason why teens should just abstain. Obviously abstinence would prevent unwanted pregancies.

    Problem is we live in the real world, and in the real world kids are fucking.

    Yep, many are doing it at far too young an age, but part of the problem is they've been learning about babies coming from the stork and the Lord, and about the harry palms they'll get if they masterbate, leaving them with nothing other than television (and porno mags they steal from their fathers) to learn about sex from.

    So they know nothing about the act, yet they still can't control their urges. So they do something stupid. And its criminal on the part of their parents and teachers for not giving them the facts to know better.

  5. I don't understand how the religious can justify picking and choosing what is and is not all right to God. I went to Catholic school, too, and knew girls who were vehemently against birth control but had no problem with the whole sex out of wedlock thing. And they used the rhythm method, and yup, got pregnant.

  6. Rationalism is the focus of the September issue of The Sun literary magazine.

    What's scary about the president of Iran (oh, you'd have to Google it too!) is that he believes literally in winged horses and the like, and tried to find common ground w/ Pres. Bush as a man who believes in a character called Jesus.

    Now, I'm a conservative but I still can't believe that most of the people in our country (Jesusland) believe in god and hold various superstitions. I know we're hard-wired for that all, but c'mon people!

    You might as well say you believe in Zeus... or Scientology.

  7. Faith doesn't necessarily make you a moron or a crazy.
    Plenty of Christians (and people of other faiths, obviously) get that birth control is not immoral, but is in fact often the most responsible action, in and out of marriage.
    And the rhythm method? Is a borderline-effective system for helping people who WANT to get pregnant figure out when they are most fertile. It is not not not a system for figuring out how NOT to get pregnant. If it was, wouldn't that also be against the teachings of accepting whatever children are given to you?

  8. the point of the rhythm method, according to the Church, is that while the intent obviously is not to get pregnant, the couple still leaves the posssibility that God might decide they get pregnant anyway. Intent means a lot and I;m not sure there's any real difference between intent in using a condom or this method. The intent in both is not to get pregnant. Seems God could also intervene and pop the condom if He so chooses, no?

  9. Anonymous, you're right in that the rhythm method is also used by people trying to get preggers. But, I swear to God, it's also used a form of "natural" birth control. And yes, it's wildly hypocritical for that to be OK and not condoms. Just another reason to go Protestant.

    Also, if anyone can find where in the Bible it says that birth control is immoral...well, tell me immediately. I'm pretty sure that Catholics and Evangelicals made that up.

  10. As someone who grew up Catholic and went to Catholic school and was an alter acolyte (that's higher in rank than a mere alter boy), I am proud of my heritage.

    Nevertheless, I am amazed that some people continue to believe literally in the supernatural. The Catholic Church is getting ridiculous with its exorcisms and the statement about Hitler being possessed by the devil.

    Otherwise, he was a nice guy, right?

    Meanwhile, they're making a pretty penny.

  11. Same anonymous from above.
    I do know that people use it as a method of birth control. I should have said:
    "Is a borderline-effective system for helping people who WANT to get pregnant figure out when they are most fertile. It is not not not an effective system for figuring out how NOT to get pregnant. And if it was, wouldn't that also be against the teachings of accepting whatever children are given to you?"
    Also, agreed on motive and God's omnipotence. If God can overrule your vaginal mucus temperature, God can cause a tear in a condom.

  12. I lol'ed at that last sentence.

  13. LOLing is something teenage girls do.

  14. Who is to say I'm not a teenage girl?

  15. Rusty, this is an interesting topic but finding a tiny religious subculture in an overwhelmingly liberal region is hardly fodder for hating D.C. In fact, this should be on the why I hate religion blog. This movement is nothing at all peculiar to D.C., and therefore not a good whyihateDC post.

  16. Ohmygod! Ever hear of all politics is local? This just involves people who reside in the D.C. area hating on things in general.

    I doubt Rusty could post something every day on the subject as he's rather limited in writing and reporting talent and is just a puppy.

    Thank you Howard Kurtz! :)

  17. It's a national story in a local newspaper that could affect a lot of local young women. I think that's important.

    Granted, it is a little off-topic.

  18. I've read that the idea that birth control is immoral comes from a mistaken belief of St. Augustine that children come solely from the man - that the man plants the child in the woman and the woman is just the incubator. The prohibition has become so ingrained in Catholic tradition that they've forgotten where it came from and refuse to revisit it.

  19. What's even scarier are pharmacies that won't refill birth control prescriptions or morning after pills because of their 'beliefs'!

  20. If pharmacists cannot fulfill their duties to provide people with medications that they are legally entitled to, then they should look for other work.

    Pharmacists make good money and they have no right to refuse someone medication based upon their personal beliefs.

    Let's say I'm a cop but don't believe that enforcing laws against rape is moral. I wouldn't last too long on the force.

    Let them give up their six-figure jobs and work as carpenters or fishermen.

  21. I don't even know where to begin. I guess just a lot of anti-religious liberal read this blog that is why there is no sensible discussion goin on in here.

    If devout Catholics want to attend a medical practice that follows the moral belief of the Church, why do you feel it necessary to riddicule the doctors and their patients.

    I think if this article was about an alternative medical practice that used crytals and some sort of Oriental medicine, there wouldn't be a peep from all of you good liberals.

    Right from the start, the term "rhythm method" is a loaded term. Natural Family Planning is more advanced than just counting the days.

    And why do you feel it is necessary to riddicule Catholic who believe that artificial contraception, even among married couples, is sinful. (Which it is.) If you are not Catholic, why do you care. And if you are a non-practicing Catholic why do you care. You can ignore that moral principle like you ignore all of the other principles. (Of course, why it really bothers them is that deep down they know that artificial contraception is immoral, but they choose to follow what makes them feel good.)

    I also have to laugh at all of the liberals who trot out that sorry statement --- "kids are going to have sex anyways..." Kids are going to smoke anyways so should we let Marlboro hand out "safe cigarettes"? Of course if you hand out condoms like candy kids will have sex.

    The one good thing to say is that all of you good liberals are contracepting yourselves out of existence. Take a look at this:

  22. The article mentions that often people who oppose birth-control are teased by their former OBGYNs. That's unacceptable.

    Really? Why? If they oppose birth control because they want to get pregnant, that's one thing, but if they really believe that God prefers for them to take mucus samples, and He will prevent them from getting knocked up, they probably should be mocked at length.

  23. Well, I'm conservative on most issues but I don't believe in god (In fact, I use lower case letters for that word).

    There are many "Brights" who draw from the conservative ranks of America. Not all conservatives are morons, pal.

    I agree with you on your main point, however: let religious people be religious so long as they're not harming the rest of us (as "activist" pharmacists do us wrong by abridging our legal rights).

    Btw, you're so correct about the procreation gap between liberals and conservatives. Though whites are dying out in Europe and into Eurasia and just barely holding on in North America (as they flee South Africa and California), one of the fastest growing populations in the world is the predominantly white Mormon population of the North America (they're also recruiting non-whites around the world at a fast clip!)....

    Just as Pat Buchanan writes, the side that most believes in their religious dogma is the strongest. Pat says his money's on the Muslims. And that's no joke.

  24. Further comment for those talking about forcing pharmacists to fill prescriptions.

    So I guess you think we should abolish conscientious objector status for Quakers, Amish and pacificsts. Or we should force prison employees who oppose the death penalty to participate in executions.

    Forcing people to do things against their strong moral belief -- I wouldn't expect that from good liberals like you???

  25. Alanna -- you are so tolerant are you. I can't believe you would say such a stupid thing, but then again all you do is watch TV.

  26. First and foremost, someone posted comments under the name "Rusty." Even if your name really is Rusty, I had to delete that so people don't get mixed up.

    Oh Archduke, where to begin. I think it's great that Catholics and Evangelicals can get the health care they want. I made that clear. But that still leaves some people in the lurch and makes it harder for 16-yr-olds to get STD tests and Plan B prescriptions if they're stuck going to these OBGYNs.

    And I know the rhythm method involves more than counting the days. I was very clear in that it also involves vaginal mucus. Loads and loads of vaginal mucus.

    As for birth control or artificial conception being sinful...you can believe that if you want. But that's not in the Bible. An infallable man in a pointy hat made that decision for you.

    Finally, your statement "of course if you hand out condoms like candy kids will have sex" is just untrue. This myth has been debunked time and time again.

    Anecdote: I had a condom in my wallet when I was 16 and I assure you I wasn't get laid, ever.

  27. Quakers don't join the army. A prison guard wouldn't take a job where he would have to take part in executions. And pharmacists who are opposed to birth control just shouldn't be pharmacists.

  28. Archduke fdjfdfjdhf,

    I may watch a lot of TV, but even I can recognize the radical difference between expecting a pharmacist to do his duty by doling out meds to people with legal prescriptions, and allowing Quakers to refuse military service because they are of a pacifist faith. If you become a pharmacist, you are aware of your responsibilities, which will include prescribing birth control medication to those who need it. If you're opposed to this, don't be a frigging pharmacist. Just like Quakers probably shouldn't join the Marines. The pharmaceutical industry and religion should have nothing to do with one another.

  29. A point to anonymous.

    I love you say that by practicing my beliefs I am somehow "harming" you. You have quite a broad definition of "harm".

    Am I forcing you as a non-believer to accept my position? If I choose not to take contraceptives am I harming you.

    Go into any CVS in the area and buy all of the condoms you want. It's proably 5% of Catholics who faithfully follow the Church's teaching on contraceptives so it's not like the Church is going to take over every drug chain and refuse to sell condoms.

    I don't see how a small minority practices their beliefs harms the other 99% of the US population.

  30. A point back to Rusty.

    The idea that 16 year olds are going to be left in the lurch is ridiculous.

    Patients at the Tepyac clinic deliberately seek out this clinic and Tepyac is very clear upfront what they will do and won't do.

    A 16 year old can just go to the school nurse and get whatever birth control she needs without her parents knowing. (Unless the nurse wants to give her an aspirin tablet -- then she has to ask the parents' permission.)

    And as to your point about birth control not being in the Bible. First, Catholics believe (unlike many Protestants) that sacred tradition and the magesterium are equal to the Bible in authority. It has been a belief and teaching since the days of the early Church that artificial contraception is immoral.
    Second, in Genesis Chapter 38, God smites Onan for practicing coitus interruptus. There it is in the Bible.

  31. It harms me when my girlfriend can't get Plan B because of my pharmacist's religious beliefs.

    I had a friend who was turned away with a Plan B Rx. She responded, so she claims, by asking the pharmacist what aisle the coat-hangars and Dust Busters were on.

  32. Hey Archduke, so you do believe it harms the population?

    Incidentally, the consciensious objector bit was only relevant when we had a draft.

  33. Onan is considered a masturbator, not a coitus interrupter. That's why complusive masturbation is called "Onanism."

    And my point about the 16-yr-olds is that many girls go to the OBGYN that's referred to them by their mothers. If a sexually active teenager's mom subscribes to these beliefs, that girl is in the lurch.

  34. Also, school nurses can't hand out birth control. Most don't allow them to hand out condoms either.

  35. Rusty -

    You are correct that Quakers don't volunteer to join the Army, but it has been a part of our nation's history that during a wartime draft Quakers, Mennonites, etc have been exempt from military service. You can't deny that a conscientous objection has a recognized legal standing in our country.

    And to prison guards, I disagree. I am originally from Upstate NY where there are lots of prisons and most people work at prisons because they are good paying jobs, not because they are blood thirsty.

    This whole story about pharmacists objecting is just a load of bull. Scare stories planted by Planned Parenthood who want to force, yes that is right force, everyone to prescribe contraceptions. There are plenty of pharmacists who don't care one way or the other.

  36. The consciensious objectors are forced to fight a war without ever joining the Army. You would have a point if we draft pharmacists and make them fill prescriptions of RU-486. By choosing to be a pharmacist, you choose to dispense the drugs that doctor sees fit.

  37. Rusty

    Go back and read Genesis Chapter 38. Onan was to impregnate his deceased brother's wife but he pulled out. Clearly about contraception.

    Public schools don't hand out condoms? Maybe I should send my kids there, because plenty of other public schools do.

    And it "harms" your girlfriend if she can't get Plan B? Maybe you two should be more responsible.

  38. I can honestly say I have never been mocked by any doctor for saying that my form of birth control is abstinence. I know that others may have different experiences, but, wow.
    That said, I would be wary of any doctor who would refuse to acknowledge other forms of birth control, because my practice is not for everyone, especially married everyones.
    In fact, I would be more worried about a doctor who did not recognize big chunks of medical science than I would be about one who did not respect my religious beliefs. If your doctor mocks you, switch doctors. If your doctor acts like a non-doctor, you could find yourself forced to carry a dangerous pregnancy — even an originally wanted pregnancy — to term.

  39. Of course responsiblity is a big part of it, but mistakes happen. If my hypothetical girlfriend gets a prescription, the pharmacist is harming her by not giving it to her.

  40. "Mistakes happen" You sound like Bill Clinton.
    Perhaps you should say. We made a mistake.

  41. My wife was mocked by her (former) OB-GYN for her belief. That's why the Tepyac is such a great place.

    It's not that doctors refuse to acknowledge the science, they certainly understand it well.

    The doctors at Tepyac (and they are all wonderful, skilled, very caring) accept the teachings of the Church and refuse to carry out any practices that run counter to those teachings --- just like all of their patients. As I said before, they lay out their beliefs very clearly BEFORE they sign you up, so if that practice is not for you, you are free to find another OB-GYN -- there are plenty of them around.

    That's why Tepyac was founded, so faithful Catholic doctors could treat faithful Catholics. Is this a medical practice for the general public? No it probably isn't.

    I just can't understand why everyone has to dump on people who practice what they preach. Isn't that refreshing in this day and age?

  42. I not going to weigh in on this issue because my opinion would have both sides messed up in the head for a long time but I'm glad that we are able to conduct this discussion in a civilized manner.

    Major props to rusty for the maturity of this blog.

  43. Oh, and the headline is hilarious, as are those commercials. I've been using the "Boo..." line since the first one came out and it still cracks me up.

  44. Arch, I'm not angry at these doctors. I'm just expressing concern and discomfort with the practice. With 15,000 patients, there is an obvious demand for this. It does make it harder for minors to get birth control or STD checks and that is cause for concern.

  45. Anonymous, I only wrote about this article because the Red Stripe commercial popped into my head. Seriously.

  46. "It's not that doctors refuse to acknowledge the science, they certainly understand it well."

    I understand you're standing up for a clinic you've had a great experience with, and good for you.

    But why would doctors who already know that they are not going to administer or advise patients on artificial birth control or abortions stay up on advances and changes in that science? Are you sure they "understand it well"?

    That just surprised me, like I'd be surprised if my podiatrist understood birth control science well.

  47. during our marriage weekend retreat o' fun with the catholic church, a couple (of the biggest pervies i've ever seen) lectured on how well the rhythm method works. so well, she'd been pregnant NINE TIMES. not that she had nine kids, at some point her body just started telling her to F off and she started miscarrying. ok, nine pregnanies isn't *working* - it's ridiculous.

  48. Archdukefranzjosef21:

    Why do I care if a pharmacist will not prescribe the morning after pill? How does it harm me if people refuse to use contraception? Simple. Unwanted children being brought into the world cause increased poverty, drug addiction and abuse, alcoholism, crime, child abuse, higher taxes, and an unnecessary strain on the welfare system, our schools, our police, the court system, the penal system, social services, etc. So get off your high horse and quit preaching your so called "morals" and saying it does not harm me. You are living in some sort of warped religious utopia and haven't got a clue as to what life is like in the real world.

  49. Mmmmmmm......vaginal mucus.

  50. Further comment for those talking about forcing pharmacists to fill prescriptions.

    So I guess you think we should abolish conscientious objector status for Quakers, Amish and pacificsts. Or we should force prison employees who oppose the death penalty to participate in executions.

    Forcing people to do things against their strong moral belief -- I wouldn't expect that from good liberals like you???

    Listen asshole. I'm not saying people shouldn't be able to object to things they don't believe in. Go ahead and quit your six-figure job to protest!

    But don't be a fireman who conscientiously objects to putting out fires! then that's not the right job for you, asshole!

    Fuck you.

    And I'm a guy who's voting for macacca George Allen. I'm conservative, but I don't buy your shitty argument. Go ahead and be a conscientious objector, but don't abrogate other people's rights!

    If you can't do the job, you shouldn't be doing the job. It's not like conscientious objectors go on to serve in the military and then refuse to fire their M-16s in battle b/c they belive it's wrong.

    You're being disengenuous. Fuck off. And I'm conservative, bitch. There's a difference between between being conservative and being superstitious. I'm a "bright" conservative, homes.

    Props to all my rational liberal and conservative homies.

  51. I am a loyal reader of Bust Magazine (a feminist magazine), and I read an article in this month's mag about the "Fertility Awareness Method", which sounds incredibly similar to the Rhythm Method (daily temperature taking, mucus, etc.). It was touted as a natural alternative to birth control for those who have a hard time with its side effects.

    It's interesting to see how people will choose to accept an idea based on who says it and how it's framed.

  52. Bust magazine. Do you also subscribe to "Bitch?"

  53. To conservative with a brain.

    A few points about "unwanted children".

    1.) Deciding whether a child should live or be aborted is a matter of being "wanted"? That's an awful dangerous and subjective standard, but what I expect in a culture that doesn;t value life. If we think the elderly and disabled are "unwanted" should we euthanize them?

    2.) The people who practice NFP want to have children, and perhaps lots of them. Aren't you all in favor of "choice"? I guess you're in favor of choice as long as it means abortion.

    3.) This whole overpopulation argument is a load of crap. The world is on the verge of massive depopulation.

    And another point. I'm on a high horse?? That's quite a statement from you seeing that you are accusing me of destroying thr world becuase I don't want to use artificial contraception.

    My morals aren't harming anyone, although they seem to be annoing you quite a bit.

  54. And a point to the "bright" anonymous at the bottom.

    First of all, I can't believe anyone is stupid enough (or perhaps arrogant enough) to call themselves a "bright". I guess I'll make up some term and call myself a "great" and start throwing it around so I feel better about myself.

    Second, this whole discussion about pharmacists and Plan B is a load of baloney. 99% of the pharmacists in the country don't give a damn about what prescriptions they fill. If you somehow manage to find one who lives according to his faith and refuses to prescribe abortifacients, go somewhere else. This phony argument that pharmacists who object should find another profession is ridiculous. If you don't like that pharmacist go somewhere else.

    Any finally, I have always been taught when someone starts dropping the "F Bomb" during an argument, they have run out of anything intelligent so say. I offend you so much that you have to stoop to vulgarities. I guess you show yourself to be the idiot you really are.

  55. And one more final (political) point.

    After following the discussion in here, I am glad that all of you are using contraception and aborting your babies.

    That means my children and all of the many children of my like-minded friends (not yours, if you have any) will be deciding our nation's future long after we're all burried.

    I guess the liberals have been very good at limiting population growth, unfortunately for you, the population you are limiting is Democrats. Congratulations - you are doing a country a great service. Keep up the great work!

  56. First of all, I can't believe anyone is stupid enough (or perhaps arrogant enough) to call themselves a "bright". I guess I'll make up some term and call myself a "great" and start throwing it around so I feel better about myself

    Well, I was dropping the F bomb because I had been drinking, not because I'd run out of intelligent things to say. You're quite the prig to think that makes one less intelligent than yourself!

    We use the term "bright" because it gets attention and, obviously, pissed your ass off, ya moron.

    Who you calling an idiot? You believe in fictional characters who created you and supposedly love you! Ha. You frickin' moron!

    And, by the by, not every conservative is a dumb religious idiot like yourself.

  57. Hey religious moron,

    Here's the truth. We're just a bunch of molecules--and that's it. You're quite the megolomaniac to assume that your pitiful life form is everything the universe has been working toward.

    Btw, I'm conservative.

    Oh! They tried to teach my baby science!

  58. God loves all of his children.

  59. W. T. F.

    The problem with "natural family planning" for a couple that doesn't want children is that it doesn't work. It has about the same failure rate as saran wrap and a rubber band.

    And I am in favor of choice. That's why I love those "Choose Life, Your Mother Did" bumper stickers. People can choose to have as many kids as they want. I'm down with that. Hurray for Choice!

    I don't know why you're so bugged at people for being creeped out at a natural family planning clinic. The combination of religion and science creates a worrisome precedent where people may not get the care they need. You're probably aware that in Catholic doctrine, the unborn fetus is to be protected over the life of the mother when both are at risk.

  60. And one more final (political) point.

    After following the discussion in here, I am glad that all of you are using contraception and aborting your babies.

    That means my children and all of the many children of my like-minded friends (not yours, if you have any) will be deciding our nation's future long after we're all burried.

    The future of the United States seems to be that of a Third World nation, in part because of mass immigration from poor countries and in part because of stupid people such as yourself.

    Oh, the meek are inheriting the Earth, are they? Just look at what they're getting. You're no better than the president of Iran, who believes in winged horses.

    Do you literally believe anything anyone tells you? Do you believe in the tooth fairy? You might as well, you dumdum.

  61. Any finally, I have always been taught when someone starts dropping the "F Bomb" during an argument, they have run out of anything intelligent so say.

    Your word are telling. "I've always been taught..."

    That wasn't something you thought on your own; that was something your mother or pastor told you, eh?

    You dumdum. Jesus will save your ass, I'm sure. Some fictional character like Zeus or Holden Caulfield LOVES you because you believe hard enough.

    You poor, poor sap of a being.

  62. There Krystal Ball goes again -- calling me a "dumb religious idiot".

    Are you still drunk? Or perhaps you're still just an idiot. Sorry, a "bright" idiot.

    No need to have any further discussion with a moron like you.

    Promise me you won't have any children, ever. You will do humanity a great service by permanently ridding the world of your mongoloid genes.

  63. To archduke:
    Umm, before your offspring go "deciding our nation's future", you've gotta pay for college. Good luck with that.

  64. "And I am in favor of choice. That's why I love those "Choose Life, Your Mother Did" bumper stickers."

    I like those bumper stickers because I'm pro-life. Not because I think women are mere incubators, but because the one who has the most at stake in a pregnancy is the baby. Abortion doesn't allow the baby to choose whether to live or die.

    I also love the baby T-shirts that say, "Now that I'm safe, I'm pro-choice."

  65. This whole story about pharmacists objecting is just a load of bull. Scare stories planted by Planned Parenthood who want to force, yes that is right force, everyone to prescribe contraceptions. There are plenty of pharmacists who don't care one way or the other.

    That's a bullshit argument and you know it, pardon my French.

    There are plenty of firemen who believe in putting out fires so what's the harm in having one or two who let them burn, baby, burn?!

    That's a false argument. And I AM a bright and you're a dumdum. Look, I used to believe but I grew out of that as soon as my brain matured and I started reading more. Things suddenly seemed... krystal klear.

  66. I always thought you good liberals were so tolerant of diversity? Apparently you can't tolerate anyone with religious views. You have to call us morons and idiots and everything else that makes you feel good.

    Why don't you all go to your favorite Starbucks and enjoy your sterile, childless, material lives.

    I will pray for all of you this evening. Pray that you may have charity and peace in your hearts.

    Misereatur tui omnipotens Deus.

  67. Promise me you won't have any children, ever. You will do humanity a great service by permanently ridding the world of your mongoloid genes.

    Who are YOU calling an idiot? You believe someone named Jesus loves you. You fucking moron. That's says it all. I can't even add anything because it's like I'm trying to communicate with a lower animal, you scurvy dog.

  68. 1. "in-and out" was hillarious. encore!

    2. great blog, fucked up story.

    3. The only place where religion and medicine mixed properly was with male circumcision. that's about it.

  69. I will pray for all of you this evening. Pray that you may have charity and peace in your hearts.

    don't waste your breath. The latest research shows that prayer doesn't affect others. You sound like the Catholic Church performing long-distance exorcisms on the "possessed" Hitler and Stalin.

    Pray that your holy ass doesn't catch fire w/ all of that gas around, you pious, holier-than-thou son of a bitch.

    Who do you think you are? You believe in winged horses, you terrorist.

    No need to have further discussion with a moron like me? I feel the same way about you, pal. You dumdum.

    How are you different from a terrorist who's altered his state of consciousness, whipped himself into a state of ecstasy, through prayer or mediation? You're just hosing your brain pal and I wish you could understand that.

    It's fine that you wish to live your life in that state of mind, but don't presume to tell me that your superstitious beliefs make you a superior being.

    You smell your own farts.

  70. No discussion w/ someone like me, archduke?

    You haven't even addressed the points I made. Just called me an idiot. Good job.

    I have plenty of tolerance for someone like you, I just don't think you should be forcing your beliefs on others when they are lawfully entitled to certain prescriptions.

    You're not in charge and you're not making the laws. Have your beliefs and superstitions, go ahead and pray to the damn Easter Bunny, but leave me out of it.

    My favorite story from the old testament was the one about how you should go home, lock the door behind you, and pray in private.

    You're like the old man in church who holds up the Almight Dollar so that everyone can see it before dropping it into the collection plate. You have nothing in common with the old woman, a beggar, who gave all that she had, even though it was just a penny or whatever.

    If there was a hell, there'd be a special circle there for people who smell their own farts.

    Now get out of here you mangy mutt. Calling me a mongoloid. Good one. You're the dumdum.

    Jump off a bridge. Super Jesus will save you!

  71. Btw, did you know the Earth was actually round?

    Yeah, it's this thing called science, right? Perhaps you've heard of it. It's what got you into your Volvo station wagon to get your holy-rolling pompous ass to church on Sunday....

  72. Rusty

    Go back and read Genesis Chapter 38.

    Jesus H. Fucking Christ On A Stick Dipped In Horshit. Got any more bedtime reading suggestions for us?

  73. I see very little point in having any further discussion about this topic if the level of discourse is just calling me a moron/idiot, etc because I happen to hold religious beliefs.

    Am I forcing you to believe what I believe? Am I telling you that you are all going to Hell? Am I the Pharisee who prays in public so everyone can see me? Absolutely not.

    Freely choosing to accept your faith is what works best. I choose to believe, you do not. We have both done what is best for us. Why can't you seem to accept that? Why does that make you so angry?

  74. What does science without morality get us? Every heard of the Tuskeegee Experiments of Dr. Mengele?

  75. Dude,

    It doesn't make me angry. The issue we were initially addressing was pharmacists abrogating citizens rights to certain precriptions.

    I bear you no animosity. For what it's worth, "God" bless you.

    I just see the word in a... fundamentally different way than you.

  76. Archduke, I have a huge tolerance for the religious. I consider myself an agnostic Episcopalian and I'm a little bit ashamed that I haven't been to Mass in like forever. I don't agree with the people saying you're dumb for believing Jesus loves you. I think Jesus loves us too.

    That being said, your points aren't very well thought out. You're attacking straw men. If we think the rhythm method is stupid, we must be intolerant baby-killers! We're the problem!

    By the way, I've thoroughly enjoyed this comment thread, so, thanks for playing the villain.

  77. I hate it when conservatives start throwing around the hypocrisy accusations by saying "I thought you liberals....", but if that's the direction we're going in...

    Hey, Archduke, just curious, what's your stance on capital punishment, or the war in Iraq? Because I'm pretty sure the Church and the Pope have been pretty clear that they're against killing of ANY sort. Yet somehow, the only subject that we hear from religious conservatives on is abortion. Odd, isn't it? I mean, as long as we're talking about hypocrisy, and all...

    I don't really consider myself a believer but I have no problem with you being one. I start having a problem when believers impose their beliefs on others. And then have the gall to throw accusations of intolerance! "You're supposed to be the tolerant ones; here, tolerate THIS." That's not the way it works.

    If you don't see a problem with a pharmacist injecting his or her morality in the middle of the doctor/patient relationship, well, we're not going to see eye-to-eye on much, probably.

    But you seem to have bought into the whole "Culture Wars" thing with great zeal. Last I checked, we've had conservatives running the show for 6+ years now. We've tried abstinence-only education; kids kept getting pregnant. But why bring facts and data into it? Much easier to make some fallacy of an argument like "If you're going to hand out condoms, why not just hand out cigarettes, too?" or "What about the conscientous objectors??" Much easier to keep believing everything you read and hear on the radio: that the Liberal Boogeymen still control every aspect of our society and WE WANT TO EAT YOUR UNBORN CHILD.

    /End rant, go with God, just leave ME the hell alone.

  78. I have heard of those experiments and of course the Nazis were the worst of science.

    We do need morality in science but the fact of the matter is that we're in the end times, not literally but in a technological sense.

    Not Jesus, but the Singularity cometh.

    It's interesting to me, as a secular person (don't call me a humanist because that implies a belief system I might not necessarily agree with), that 44% of the American public believes the world will end soon.

    Stephen Hawking thinks the "world" might end this century, too!

    At any rate, the human race is at its end and the future will involve Humans 2.0--those beings enhanced by chemicals and IT to the point where they're no longer human.

    I have no doubt, however, that religion will continue to play a role.

  79. Rusty, that's nice that you believe in jesus. You're a good boy.

  80. Yeah, wow.

    Gotta say, I'm a little disgusted that anti-racist Rusty hasn't jumped in to the fray of the anti-religious bigotry here.

    Religious does not mean conservative, or stupid, or pro-life, necessarily, although the archduke here is doing a fine job making all Christians look bad.

    Some of us do, deeply, believe in what some of you call "superstition," and in prayer, but also in science, in choice, in informed doctors informing patients, in birth control, in anti-nomianism, for that matter.
    We're not all creepy, or morons.

    And, btw, archduke, not all liberals are bigots or anti-religious or morons or abortionists or whoremongers, either. Some of us even practice abstinence in our own lives.

    Separate your prejudices from your arguments and you'll all do a lot better.

  81. Sorry, Rusty, cross-posting.

    Disgust redacted.

  82. yeah, archduke, what's with all of the labelling. lol.

    you sound like a 14 year-old high school girl trying to categorize people. what kind of music do you like? are you a goth, preppy, jock, stoner, skater or geek?

    all conservatives believe in religion and all liberals want to abort the human race, especially white people, who have brought us this evil technology.

    Ohmygod, life is more complex. as a guy w/ liberal AND conservative notions, i realize that some issues are more complex than the human brain can understand.

    i realize sometimes that ( and i don't believe in moral relativism) that in regard to abortion there is no right or wrong answer.

    either way, there is horror. in the case of an endangered pregnant mother, you're making a choice between two lives.

    who is ANYONE to say that they have the answers?

  83. Jesus is coming. Look busy!

  84. What about anti-secular bigotry here?

    We're the "bright" minority, after all.


  85. Jesus titty-fucking Christ!

  86. archduke,

    Geez, your argument is so far out there, I can hardly even begin to dispute it. Nice strategy, BTW -- make an argument so asinine, that no one can go near it.

    First of all, I don't consider using the morning after pill abortion. Obviously, you do. A difference of opinion, plain and simple. No use arguing about it. Then you compare the morning after pill to euthanizing the elderly. Again, so bizzare and downright stupid it isn't even worth touching. I guess you win.

    If a woman cannot use the morning after pill and gets pregnant without wanting a child, then that child is "unwanted". Pretty simple concept to me. Obviously not to you though. First of all, I am a huge advocate of personal responsibility. If you don't want to get pregnant, then don't have sex. But unlike you, I live in the real world. We DO have unwanted pregnancies, like it or not. And they lead to all of the problems I mentioned in my previous post. You didn't even come close to addressing them. Instead you thow out an "overpopulation" argument, which I didn't even mention. I never said the world was being overpopulated. You are probably the same person who bitches about crime and abused children, but then insists that every unwanted pregnancy should just "happen", and God will care for the poor child. I've got news for you, dude. God isn't taking care of these kids. We are. And we aren't doing a very good job of it.

    I'm about as conservative as they come, but unlike you, I use common sense and live in the real world.
    I can't figure out for the life of me what planet you are on. And the only reason why your morals annoy me is because you try and push them off on others.

  87. Practicing what you preach does not have to mean preaching what you practice.

  88. Conservative Brain,

    You're making a mistake by trying to, um, reason with someone who is in a state of religious ecstasy.

    There can be no logic to it. You try to debate a religious person and they'll take out the circular logic and use jargon to try to paint the picture.

    Yes, but according to the "Epiphany of the Christ," and so on.

    These are the same type of people who fly aircraft into buildings and try to blow their shoes up.

  89. Hallowed are the Ori.

  90. What does science without morality get us? Every heard of the Tuskeegee Experiments of Dr. Mengele?

    What does morality have to do with believing in your particular deity or worldview?

    People who aren't religious aren't "moral." Again, muddled thinking from the religious. You're kind of like the Scarecrow from The Wizzard of Oz--if I only had a brain.

    You're definately into "straw men."

  91. Where's our Friday post, Rusty?

    Did God smite you?

  92. Rusty goes to church w/ he mama.

  93. Hey, I can be a villain too. Watch.

    Archie wrote:

    1.) Deciding whether a child should live or be aborted is a matter of being "wanted"? That's an awful dangerous and subjective standard, but what I expect in a culture that doesn;t value life. If we think the elderly and disabled are "unwanted" should we euthanize them?

    Shit yeah! I'm equal opportunity euthanasia.

    When did this country turn into such a bunch of fucking pussies about death?

    I'm totally pro-death, especially when it comes to the elderly. They shit and piss all over themselves, suck up entitlement money, drive up health care costs all while being the most reliable voting block EVER! Don't ever get the AARP on your bad side, them fools will throw down!

    Trouble with that is they keep voting for douchebags. Hey, granny, stop voting!

    You'll be dead in four years, you won't live to give a fuck about what a fuckhole George Bush turns this planet into.

    We will. So, could you just leave a note about whether you prefer the pillow or the ol' yank of the plug -- it would save us a lot of trouble believe me.

    Peace out,

  94. Archie and AngryDcfuck:

    low IQs, both of you.... I'm sorry that you're such low animals.

  95. I can't stand those billboards (mostly seen out west or in the bible belt) that says, "Aren't you glad your mother was pro-life?" My mother was, and still is, very actively pro-choice. Her CHOICE was to have a child. She is not pro-abortion; in fact, she's appalled by it. But she would NEVER attempt to try to decide what is right or wrong for any other person on this planet.

    Love you mom!

  96. Arch is probably praying for the salvation of your soul as we speak.

  97. The meaning of life?


  98. what is all this screaming really about? if you boys would just pull out on time this wouldn't be a biggie. and trust me, we ladies WILL use coat hangers if we have no other options!

  99. Misty, you're no lady and you know it.

    I'm just bummed 'cause it's Saturday and i have to wait a whole DAY before I can go to church and pray and see all of my holy friends.

    Rising at five this morning for my matins, I thought it was Sunday--the best day of the week! Alas, it was not. Unfortunately, our church does not offer Saturday evening mass and we'll just have to be patient. (Sigh.)

  100. Am I the 100th comment? Awesome!

    I think the real crime here is the clear anti-Christian bias in even publishing this article. Anytime a newspaper can paint Christians, or better yet, Catholics, in a negative light, they will do it. The Post would *never* publish a similar article about, say, an Islamic medical center with the same practices. If they did, it would paint it in a totally positive light... none of the controversy would be mentioned at all.

    Face it, you know I'm right.


    or have a baby. dude whatever. if britney spears did it it must be kosher.

    and i'm sorry- but the decision-making skills of promiscous young lassies tend to lack advanced development. it happens. worse forms of religious confusion exist than mere reproduction. i remember a great story our beloved rusty relayed to me in years since past of a girl from his catholic school who, in the interest of preserving her virginity for her one-day-hubby while experiencing the joys of being a filthy whore; developed the fulproof plan of only taking it in the ass. good show!

    ps - rusty how does god feel about buggary, anyhow? its legal in mass, if you remember. right around the time tattoos became legal. huh.

  102. I'd have called that more of a pun than a double entendre, but technically I guess it could go either way.

    My favorite use of the "double-entendre" is in the mockumentary Jackie's Back where Jackie asks her daughter, Entendre, do to get her a coffee and then adds, "And make it a double Entendre."


    wait, what were people talking about on here?

  103. Yeah, I was torn between pun and double-entendre.

    And Dith, man, that girl is effing crazy. Ew ew ew ew ew. And she goes to an Evangelical school now.

  104. Holy shit, if i had a wife who claimed to be a vaginal virgin but an anal whore, I don't know what I'd say.

    To me, anal sex (with a female) is SO much more intimate and special and I'd certainly rather she left that for me, if nothing else. jesus christ, way to exploit a loophole. What a moron.

    I'd rather get her in the arse for the first time and I'm sure that makes me normal. It can be very "special."

    Arch, what do you think? You enjoy anal w/ the missus?

    I missed you at the Country Buffet today.

  105. I enjoyed it with his missus this yesterday morning after church.

  106. While Arch duke is on his knees protrate, Arch duke's wife is on her knees.... prostrate.

  107. One more point and I'll shut up. It seems our friend archduke has been reading too many dust jacket blurbs w/o reading any actual books.

    Or perhaps he gets his information from the pulpit or at the queue on the church steps after the service.

    True that religious people go forth and multiply at higher rates than others, but what makes him think my lack of superstition in any way lessens my desire to spread my genes?

    A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

  108. I think Rusty is dead.

  109. No! Alive! Will have post up before midnight. Hopefully sooner but it's not done and I'm quite busy over at the office.

  110. By "office" you mean McDonald's drive-thru window?

  111. Hi! I grew up in VA and live in Florida now, but I know several of the staff at Tepeyac personally -- you should visit the office sometime and actually get to know these people, what they really think and how they treat other people. They are really caring, fun, beautiful people who treasure sex and life as the Lord's gifts and offer an alternative to the sad and empty life that barriers pills and casual sex will eventually lead to. If you live near there, go sometime, seriously. They ain't as bad as you might think. And the "rythm" method really does work! My sister just got married and needed to wait a while to have their first baby, she testifies to it and says it helped their marriage. :-) Good nite...

  112. FYI, I'm an atheist who used the Fertility Awareness Method mentioned above. It is *not* as simplistic as the "rhythm method," by the way, which is based on a firm 28-day cycle, which most women do not fall into.

    You actually track your basal body temperature, along with several other signs (including cervical mucous) to determine when ovulation occurs.

    FAM was extremely effective for me. You don't need regular cycles to use it, as it will work very well for many women with extremely irregular cycles. I've known several other non-religious women who used it successfully for many years at a time (5+ years).